Ep. 6 - Seal Hunting w/ Jen Shears
https://www.podbean.com/media/share/pb-tcx8s-16fe8ee
In this episode of Horrible People Podcast, we sit down with Jen Shears, a passionate advocate for sustainable hunting and conservation. Jenn shares her unique journey into seal hunting, exploring how she became involved and the impact it's had on her life. We dive into the significance of the Wildlife Museum and how it has shaped public perception of seal hunting and wildlife conservation.
Jen also addresses environmental concerns surrounding seal populations and discusses the role her boutique plays in promoting seal products. She opens up about facing protests and how she balances advocacy with the realities of the hunting industry. From regulations and practices to moose hunting and its conservation implications, Jenn's wealth of knowledge provides insight into ethical hunting.
We also get a glimpse into Jen's family life and outdoor adventures, showcasing her deep connection to nature. Tune in to hear Jenn's thoughts on the future of conservation, hunting, and her personal aspirations in the field.
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Find Jen Shears:
Online | https://jenshears.com/
Instagram | https://www.instagram.com/smidjen
Find Horrible People Podcast wherever you listen to podcasts! Subscribe for weekly episodes with the most horrible people on the planet.
Instagram | https://www.instagram.com/thehorriblepeoplepod/
The Host | https://www.instagram.com/jenndvc/
Facebook | https://www.facebook.com/jenndvc
Online | https://whywehunt.ca/horriblepeoplepodcast/
YouTube | https://www.youtube.com/@jennmcdonald
00:00 Introduction to Jen Shears
02:02 The Journey into Seal Hunting
06:05 The Wildlife Museum and Its Impact
12:09 Seal Population and Environmental Concerns
18:00 The Boutique and Seal Products
23:55 Protests and Advocacy
29:49 Hunting Regulations and Practices
36:00 Moose Hunting and Conservation Efforts
41:57 Family Life and Outdoor Adventures
Jenn (00:01)
Thank you so much for tuning into Horrible People podcast. I'm Jen McDonald and the horrible person that I'm speaking with today is Jen Shears. Did I get your last name correct there, the pronunciation? Amazing. Okay. So Jen, could you tell us a little bit about yourself?
Jen (00:15)
Yeah you did, yeah she was yeah.
Kind of a loaded question, I guess. There's a lot of different facets to what I do and who I am. I'm a Newfoundlander, born and raised. I'm an indigenous woman of the Halibu, Megamaw First Nation. I am a wife, a mother, a hunter, a businesswoman. In my Instagram bio, I say a fun-haver. I'm not a fun hater at all.
Jenn (00:47)
That's good.
Jen (00:50)
So yeah, I'm a big hunter, commercial fisher, commercial steel harvester as well. So yeah, lots of different facets. When my phone rings, I never know what anyone wants. Yes.
Jenn (00:58)
Hey.
So much, yeah. And I did notice, yeah, could be fish, could be seal, could be clothing. I did also see in your Instagram bio, like a long time ago that your, what was it? Poker something. Yes. that's what that is.
Jen (01:16)
a poker wag. Yeah, a poker wife and girlfriend. Yeah, so Kerry, my husband, is a semi-pro poker player. He's done pretty well with it over the years and most of our travel usually revolves around hunting or poker. Yeah.
Jenn (01:32)
Really? cool. Okay. I just play poker like for fun, not anywhere near professional. I would lose all my money if I did. So I thought that was just pretty cool to see there. So I originally met you at the conservative outdoor caucus symposium like a few years ago. And then this year you were presenting on the seal hunt, which was an amazing, amazing presentation. Huge eye opener like that.
Jen (01:42)
Yeah.
Jenn (02:02)
alone taught me so much. So when did you get into seal hunting?
Jen (02:08)
So I, my husband's a taxidermist by trade. Our whole relationship since we've been together since we were 15 years old has revolved around hunting, fishing, trapping, outdoor stuff. And we found out through him guiding American hunters for a moose that the wait time for a taxidermist in Newfoundland was like two years. So he went to school in Calgary to take a taxidermy.
Jenn (02:21)
Amazing.
Jen (02:35)
course at the Penn School of Taxidermy. We opened a business here and then we found we couldn't get taxidermy work done in the summer. It's a big tourist town because all the tourists were coming in just fascinated with the moose heads on the wall. So we said if moose heads on the wall fascinate people, we can really do something to blow them away. So that's when we had the idea to make a wildlife museum. So dioramas.
of over 100 Newfoundland Labrador animals, like there's life-size moose, polar bears, puffins, all the mammals, you name it. And in that gift shop, we wanted to have renewable resource-based sustainable products like antler carvings and fur products. And I got my hands on a seal pelt at that time. That was back in 2009, which seems like five years ago, but 2009 was not five years ago anymore.
Jenn (03:25)
I know, it's nuts.
Jen (03:29)
I said like, this pelt is incredible. Like we could really do something with this. And we ended up with a couple designs for mitts and hats and boots and took it to a, when we saw the response that first year was really great from the East coast of the Island where St. John's the capital is. We're on the West coast of the Island. We went into a craft show the following year with just enough product that we thought would last us the four days. And we sold out in 12 hours.
so after a couple of years of doing that, we, we set up a temporary kiosk at a mall and the seal products just flew off the shelves there. And then we decided to create a year round store downtown St. John's. and yeah, that's where we've been since 2012. And, yeah, so it kind of all started from Rocky Harbor here, where we live with the taxidermy business and, and grew.
Carrie, my husband again, has been seal hunting off and on for 20, 25 years, I would say. I got my commercial license about three years ago. yeah, so the reason we met at the conservative hunting in England Coskis event is because I was invited as an industry representative, I guess, to testify at the parliamentary.
Jenn (04:32)
wow, okay.
Jen (04:55)
committee on fisheries and oceans on pinnipeds. So they were studying seals, sea lions and all those things nationally. And when I was up there, I said, if I'm getting a chance to talk to these politicians, I am not holding back. And so I kind of kind of let them have it a little bit. I did bite my tongue a bit, but I got my message across and Blaine Hulkins and Cliff Small, who are conservative MPs, Blaine from Alberta, Cliff from here in Newfoundland.
Jenn (05:08)
And you didn't.
Jen (05:24)
they invited me up to that event. So I guess if you tell politicians that they should grow a backbone, sometimes it endears them to you.
Jenn (05:34)
I think the way you worded it was so much more impactful too. How did you word that again?
Jen (05:41)
my goodness, I don't know. Yeah, said, yeah, I was like the ocean and the government as far as the seal hunt has been concerned for many years has a lot of invertebrates. So they have that in common. So I think the backbone needs to be grown. So yeah, it's still the case I think, but people said, thank you. I think you're right. yeah.
Jenn (05:43)
It was something about invertebrates in the…
Yes. Yep. I loved that.
You are right. I mean, they haven't, they have quite, you know, been able to produce one yet for the most part, but they're getting there.
Jen (06:11)
that evolutionary traits haven't really kicked in yet.
Jenn (06:14)
Yeah, exactly. So the Wildlife Museum, is that something you guys established already or like it was an idea?
Jen (06:22)
Yeah, no, yeah, that first. Yeah. So 2009 is when we opened. Yeah. And that's the first year that we had the gift shop there. The taxidermy studio was in place since like 2003. So we were a few years building up all the items and the animals because we didn't have like a life-size polar bear at the taxidermy studio. So, yeah, no, that's been a really successful enterprise for the past 15 years.
Jenn (06:26)
so cool!
Wow.
amazing and people can just kind of go in and take a look at anything they'd like and.
Jen (06:56)
Yeah, so you come in the gift shop, you enter the gift shop, there's no charge. To go in the actual museum portion though, there's an entry fee. It's minimal like $8 for an adult or something like that. But yeah, people really like it. We get school groups, bus tours, as well as families and seniors and stuff, so it's good.
Jenn (07:07)
that's good. Yeah.
very cool.
That's really good. like that. I think that would teach a lot of people about the wildlife in their area.
Jen (07:20)
Yeah, they do a scavenger hunt too. And because we found people would just walk in and 30 seconds later they would be out. But there's so many details that you don't see. So the scavenger hunt really gets people to slow down and find the things. And of course, I've got messaging about fur. They need to find the excerpt on fur and the benefits of it. So that's part of the scavenger hunt to kind of put those messages in there. Yeah.
Jenn (07:40)
good.
Really interactive and educational. Absolutely. And it looks like your daughter and your husband are like all into this. Like you guys go hunting together as a big family. That's amazing. It's really nice to be able to see the young ones getting into it.
Jen (07:58)
Thanks. Yeah, she's been on some incredible excursions. She was seven when we took her up backpack hunting in the Yukon. We were sheep hunting for two weeks and that was really her first big exposure. She had been on smaller, overnight, but more comfortable type excursions. So it was kind of like out of the frying pan into the fire, like the plane left and it was kind of like what's happening now?
Jenn (08:06)
wow.
Yeah.
Jen (08:25)
Well, Aspen, like we were here for two weeks. We got to head up to those mountains over there. And she's like, what if they're trying to kill me? Yeah, but it was the it was actually a product of COVID is what that was. Because Newfoundland was under strict isolation requirements. So we would have gone up there for two to three weeks and come home and actually had to isolate from her for like another three weeks.
Jenn (08:32)
What was I born into? that's so good.
Jen (08:55)
So we're like, this is silly. So if we take her with us, then we come home and she can isolate with us. And yeah, it was probably the coolest thing we've ever done in our lives to all be out there at that. So I'm glad that it worked out that way. she loves fishing and we're commercial lobster and crab fishermen and halibut. So she loves being out in the boat at that. She's way better at fishing than I am. suck at it. Yeah, I'm not a great angler. I don't know.
Jenn (09:00)
Yeah.
That's amazing. That was a really good experience.
Really?
Jen (09:23)
I can hunt with the best of them, they just don't like whatever's on my line or how I'm moving it or whatever. They do. Yeah.
Jenn (09:30)
but they like her line, that's amazing. And the commercial license for ceiling, how did you, what was the process to get that? it any training or anything like that involved?
Jen (09:45)
So to get a seal license in general, whether it's personal or commercial, you do need to go through training. That's one of the wild things about the seal hunt. Like I've hunted around the world for many different animals and I've never had to take a species specific course on how to properly dispatch of an animal. Like you do your basic hunter education courses where it teaches ethics and stuff like that, which is great, but you actually need to take a course on
Jenn (09:51)
Okay.
Jen (10:13)
how to dispatch of a seal. So you do that and then to seal commercially, you need to be kind of like an apprentice under someone for a couple of years. You need to have seals sold in your name. And then once you've done that for two years, then you can get your commercial license. So it is a process to get that. Again, convoluted. I don't understand why because of the
Jenn (10:34)
Wow, okay.
Jen (10:42)
the overpopulation of seals and the issues that we're having on the coast here and elsewhere out west they're having issues as well. But yeah, so you do take a course and then there's a step to get into the field.
Jenn (10:58)
Okay, and what kind of issues are you guys seeing like there and out west with the seals?
Jen (11:03)
Well, the seals now are coming into places where you have never really seen them. It's kind like they're eating themselves at a house and home and they're needing to expand their range. They're also eating non-traditional foods. So where you would normally see, they'd be eating codfish or herring or mackerel. Now they're eating shrimp and lobsters and things like that, crabs. So there was a…
Jenn (11:14)
Okay.
Wow.
Jen (11:32)
a seal harvester a couple years ago cut open the stomach of a seal and there were like over 90 juvenile crabs in the belly.
Jenn (11:41)
my god. And do you know if they can digest those properly or is that causing?
Jen (11:43)
It must be a task for them to and beyond the digestive ability, like there's really there's no fatty content in them like you would get in the pelagics and other fishes. So anecdotally in the North, hunters were saying that or are saying that traditionally you would shoot a seal and because it had such a thick layer of blubber, it would float. But
Now, because the fat content is less and the blubber layer is thinner, that they sink. So unless you're right on top of it to get it aboard your boat, you'll lose it. So there are changes happening. think late term abortions in seals are up like 200 percent. The numbers are incredibly high and well into the millions.
Jenn (12:16)
wow.
Jen (12:36)
And that's to do with the fact that our commercial harvest has dropped off in the last 20 years or so due to animal rights protests and just how they lobby different governments around the world. So they've bought into that. our quota is still about 400,000 seals per year. But because the markets are closed, the price is low.
buyers aren't buying. we're only getting, only taking like 25 to 30,000 a year. So that's less than 10 % of the quota. So you can easily see how that population can easily get out of control and how it's gotten to the point where it is today.
Jenn (13:12)
Hey.
Yeah, I think that really, really shows people why like hunting and conservation is so important because this overpopulation doesn't just impact like the people, but I mean, it's the animals health. Like these animals are aborting, like they're miscarrying. That's terrible. Do you think that the market isn't accepting as many like seal skin or anything like that because of the protests, because there's kind of animosity towards?
Jen (13:35)
Absolutely. Yep.
Well, I tend to say that the access to the markets aren't there anymore, not the markets themselves, because Europe was one of our biggest consumers of seal pelts. But since 2009, the EU has had the seal products ban, Canadian seal products ban. There is an exemption for indigenous hunted pelts, but there's a whole tracking system that needs to be involved.
Jenn (14:00)
wow.
Jen (14:18)
because the air about it is that it's an illegal product now. It's almost like people don't want to take the chance to purchase it. So when the EU market was open, we would fill our quotas every year. There were communities in Newfoundland bustling with processing plants. We were able to tan all the hides and get them sent over. So it was a huge economic driver. But now that it's closed, like I can't even
send a pair of boots over there or a pair of mitts if someone orders one on my shop I need to refund them because it's illegal to commercially import seal products into the EU at this point.
Jenn (14:52)
Wow.
I assume that that was made illegal because of like animal rights quote unquote activist.
Jen (15:04)
Yeah, yeah, they're well, I would highly recommend anyone listening or watching to watch Angry Inuk. It's a film by Aletheia Arnaukhbaryl and it basically covers the trade fight that was happening at the time and Inuit were over there. Other indigenous governments were in the EU trying to speak with the politicians.
Jenn (15:13)
Okay.
Jen (15:34)
They just kept getting brushed aside because the money machine was there. The animal rights groups were there. And really, it's devastating to Northern communities as well, economically, but on a personal and cultural level too. It's devastating. But that video, if you're in the mood to get mad, then watch that because it'll do it. It's pretty frustrating.
Jenn (16:02)
Yeah, no, I wrote that down. I'm going to save that and we're to put that in the show notes just so we can take a look at that for sure. my God. Okay. Sorry. I'm just going to try and just this here. I feel like my sound's a little off.
Jen (16:07)
Mm-hmm.
Jenn (16:18)
All right. And so you have a boutique in Newfoundland, right?
Jen (16:23)
We do, yeah, it's called Natural Boutique and that's where we sell the Sealskin boots, hats, mitts, coats, all the products that you can make out of the fur. And then on top of that, there is the oil, Omega-3 oil that comes from Seals. That's a really popular product. And then we don't sell the meat, but the seal meat is quite interesting, quite good.
Jenn (16:25)
Natural.
Jen (16:48)
And so yeah, there's multiple streams of products that come from SEALs. So it's an amazing resource that is untapped right now. But yeah, the boutique is good. It's down in downtown St. John. So in the summer, we get a lot of visitors and they kind of peek their heads in the door and it's kind of like, what is this? And you'll say it's SEAL. And then they'll say, is it real? And you're like, yeah. And then they come in and.
Jenn (16:58)
Yeah, absolutely. Do.
Come in.
Jen (17:15)
We have really great chats with people, whether they're a Latin, because Americans can't buy it either. So, because the Marine Mammal Protection Act, we're kind of blocked off in all directions. yeah, there's, we've had some great conversations and have been able to sway some people and made a lot of sales to Canadians and maybe some Americans that are going to plan on having that there, I guess. Yep. So, yeah, it's good, really good.
Jenn (17:24)
Really?
Maybe hit it in there.
Jen (17:45)
down there and in the Christmas season, it's busy with locals and with orders coming in all across Canada. So yeah, it's been fun.
Jenn (17:53)
So how do you turn these pelts into like mitts? Like what's the process there? Cause I've seen some of the stuff you have like the boots you had, I think you had a purse or a bag. Like it all looks professionally done. It's amazing.
Jen (18:00)
So.
purse yet?
Yeah, there's nothing like the look of seal fur, honestly. No two pelts are alike. I've got one here behind me. Some of them have lots of spots. Some of them have no spots. They've got the differences in the color, like from the back to the side, standard in the belly. All pelts kind of have that change of color. And it's almost iridescent. So no matter what angle you look at it, it appears to be different. So.
Jenn (18:16)
Yeah, that's gorgeous.
Okay.
Jen (18:36)
They're tanned at a local tannery. All the regulations right now say that any pelts harvested in Newfoundland need to be processed on the island. So they need to at least get to the tanned stage. So there's a tannery that we use in South Dildo in Newfoundland called Carino. So we get them tanned there and then we send the pelts to the different people that we have making the products. Some of them in Newfoundland, some in Labrador, some in Quebec, some in Nunavut to make the products for us.
Jenn (19:06)
Okay.
Jen (19:06)
So I'm involved in a lot of the different styles and stuff. If I see something that I like, I'll send them a picture of it and say, you can adjust this and put the seal here. so I'm involved in that capacity. And yeah, it's pretty cool. It's a lot of fun.
Jenn (19:24)
That's amazing. And I assume that some people not knowing might be a little bit, you know, concerned that you're selling seal. you ever have any upset citizens at the doors?
Jen (19:36)
At the doors, yeah. We have on occasion individuals that come in and sometimes at first they're pretty abrasive and upset, but as you talk to them, you can kind of talk them down out of it and educate them. And then they leave feeling better about it than they were against it at the time. But yeah, we have had protests outside the store. The first big one,
Jenn (19:56)
Good.
Jen (20:05)
at our new location was probably in 2017. And I caught wind of it because someone who was in the chat group was kind of a little mole, I guess, and they called to warn our store and said, like, I think there's going to be a protest there tomorrow. So you do with it what you will, but I wanted to give you the information so you can be prepared. So I, at that time, and even now, like confrontation, even though everything I'm into,
Jenn (20:26)
Nice.
Jen (20:35)
yields confrontation, whether it's like seal stuff or whether it's hunting. It's coming at me from all angles. I'm always fighting, even though I hate it. I at that time, I just wanted to curl up in a ball and I was like sick to my stomach. And I just felt like this is our livelihood and there's nothing wrong with it. And people are going to come down and protest against it. Like what?
Jenn (20:36)
I know.
Jen (21:02)
why and I was was hurt by it, I guess. And then, Carrie, who's always like my big cheerleader, he's like, Jen, no, you gotta we gotta turn this into something we gotta make it positive, let people know about it and turn it into something that they can support us on. So I went down to the store and I did a live video then saying like, we heard that there might be a protest here are the reasons why
we believe in sale products as an environmentalist. I don't support sale products despite being an environmentalist. I support sale products because I'm an environmentalist. And so kind of put those messages out there and try to rally people to get them engaged and on our side. And the next day there were so many people in our store and the protesters did show up. They were outside.
but there were a lot of customers that came in. It's kind of like you piss off a Newfoundlander and they're gonna support you doubly what they would have before. So, and that day I also did a Facebook live. went out with the protestors just to show people what was happening outside the store, inviting them to come down to show their support. yeah, eventually the protestors would come back every, maybe every few months or every year. And I kept telling them,
Jenn (22:03)
supporters
I love that.
Jen (22:30)
You guys, if your goal is to stop sale products, it's probably not a good idea because our sales go up higher than they ever go the week after you guys are here. Yeah, so they've been less prevalent lately. did, have that first protest. There was one really vocal woman, and she was vocal on Facebook. She was vocal actually on site.
Jenn (22:40)
Well, that's it. Yeah, I mean, like.
Jen (22:58)
And it was so strange because her messages were so close to ours. Like she wanted the same result, but her approach in terms of keeping away from seals and not harvesting them humanely didn't achieve what she wanted. Whereas as we know, if you humanely harvest animals in a sustainable way, you achieve the conservation goals and the protection goals and the health of the ecosystem and the population.
Jenn (23:23)
Mm-hmm.
Jen (23:25)
So she was so close to us and I actually took time after that live video to talk to her and say like, please just listen to what I'm saying, read what I'm writing in response. And a couple of days later, she wrote me on Facebook and said, is there an address that I can send a formal apology to you? Because I've taken time to read what you're saying, I watched what you asked me to watch and I am completely on your side right now.
told the group that we were protesting with how I feel now to try to persuade them and get them on board and they just shunned her. So she wasn't even welcome in that group anymore because she was going against them, but with facts-based knowledge and messaging. So it goes to show you though, that because they did that, they shunned her, that they're not interested in facts. They've got their own agenda.
Jenn (24:04)
wow.
Yeah.
Jen (24:23)
they're being paid by these big corporations to be out there. I always say to Carrie, like if we were in this for the real money, big money, we would be on the opposite side starting an animal rights group because that's where the big bucks are. It's not fighting the good fight, I'll tell you that much, but I will never stray from that, so.
Jenn (24:39)
Exactly.
I think that's a huge, huge win though, to be able to sway somebody that's so vocal, so passionate. And it's nice to see people that, you know, like this woman obviously wanted the right thing. She wasn't just doing it for the money and we see it all the time on the gun side. Like there are anti-gun groups that you present them all the facts in the world and they don't want to hear it. It'll just make them more pissed off at you. They're getting paid to push that message.
Jen (24:58)
Mm-hmm.
Yes.
That's right. Yeah, it's pretty frustrating, but that's the world we live in these days when celebrity and money will make people do things that they never should.
Jenn (25:17)
Yeah.
Of course, and it's so much easier with the seals because they're just they're so cute and you see them on the commercials and
Jen (25:29)
Well, and the ones that they show typically are the white coats, which we haven't even hunted since 1987. But they still show them because they are cute looking and innocent looking and it brings in the money. So even the imagery that they use isn't based on what happens.
Jenn (25:35)
Really?
Now the white coats, they're just, are they juvenile or is that a whole other?
Jen (25:52)
Yeah, the white coats are so harp seals are the seals that we hunt off Coast Newfoundland. So the white coats are the baby seals. The seals that we take are beaters, so they've shed their white coats and they're independent and they look more like this. They're still they're still young, yes, but again, they are fully independent and you can't just walk up to it and club it on the head like people say that is what happens.
Jenn (25:57)
Okay.
Jen (26:22)
in the hunt and with the white coats you could do that because they were pretty well immobile. Their mothers would leave them as you approached them and you could strike them on the head for the first strike but there's no way you could do that now because they see you coming and they will leave like any animal would. The clubbing though, I will touch on that if that's okay.
Jenn (26:29)
Okay.
they'll take off.
I was going to say, yeah, because Doug, I had Doug Chesson on a couple of episodes ago. He touched on it a little bit for anyone that didn't hear that episode. Yeah. Definitely want to get the information out there about the whole clubbing.
Jen (26:54)
Yes. So essentially when animal rights groups in the, I don't know, 70s is when they really started, I guess, saying that sealers in Newfoundland were barbarians, they were inhumane, they're clubbing seals. The government said, well, we know that the hunt is humane, so we want to prove it to you. We want to prove to you that it's humane. So they hired veterinarians, they hired scientists to develop a process so that
seals would be hunted humanely. So out of that consultation, guess, the veterinarians and the scientists developed a three-step process for humanely harvesting seals. The first step is called the strike. So that's usually by a high powered rifle. We use a 22, 250 or 223. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And then so when that happens, the next step is called the check.
Jenn (27:44)
it's like a, like coyote here.
Jen (27:53)
So you actually get out of the boat onto the ice, walk over to where the seal is. You need to palpate the skull. So you need to feel the skull. And if any part of the skull is still intact or if I'll start by saying if if the skull is completely obliterated, there's nothing intact. Then you can proceed to the next step. If, though, you feel that a part of the skull is intact, you need to hit it on the head. So that's where like the clubbing comes in.
Basically, they were saying the only one of only ways to prove that the animal is completely unconscious is to make sure the cranium is completely smashed. So there's a very prescriptive tool called a hack a pick various specifications in terms of the weight, the diameter, the length of the ferrule on it. And so you do need to hit it on the head to crush it. But 99 times out of 100, the seal is already dead. So it's kind of like the definition of overkill.
Jenn (28:38)
wow.
Jen (28:51)
Thankfully, I've never had to hit one on the head. All my shots have been okay. And the skull has been completely crushy doing for the head. that, yeah, preserve the call, preserve the knee exactly. And to make it a quick kill in the interest of being humane. So if you do see people hitting it on the head, excuse me, that's part of the process. You're regulated to do that. And DFO officers will be in the helicopter looking down at sealers and
Jenn (28:53)
Good.
I was gonna say I assumed to like preserve the pelt, plus it's a nice quick kill.
Yeah, of course.
Jen (29:20)
If you at least don't make the motion that you've checked it, then you will be charged because you didn't fulfill that second step. then also videos, you can't always believe what you see. Animal rights groups have been convicted in court for paying people to do inhumane things to animals so that they can use it and to seals so they can use it in their propaganda. So just because you see it doesn't mean it's representative of how the actual hunt works.
Jenn (29:27)
Wow.
Jen (29:49)
So then when the hit on the head happens and the skull is crushed if that's required, you can proceed to the third step, which is bleed. So you need to sever the arteries under the flippers and wait a minute or two while the seal bleeds out. And only once you've completed those three steps, so the shot, the check of the head and hit if required, and then the bleed, can you proceed to harvest the fur, the meat, and the blubber.
Jenn (30:18)
Okay. Amazing.
Jen (30:20)
So it's very, very regulated. It's, again, I've never had to take a species specific course for any other animal besides seal. So it shows you how seriously the government is taking it. But at the same time, the steps that we are doing to be humane look to be the exact opposite. They look barbaric. So that is a conundrum. That's a problem because we're doing these steps to humor these groups that are saying we're being inhumane. Yet.
footage that comes out of it looks terrible and kind of bolsters their whole narrative as it is. So it's tough. It's a pickle.
Jenn (30:52)
looks horrible.
Yeah, absolutely. That's kind of where, you know, education comes into play, but then how do you educate somebody that doesn't want to hear it?
Jen (31:09)
Absolutely. Yeah, unless they're coming in. I had someone, another story is that we were at a trade show in Fort McMurray, I think it was, and the lady walked up to the booth and said, seal products and you should be ashamed of yourself. And instead of saying, like, go away, Mrs. I was like, come in, let's talk, let me talk to you. Yeah, let's see what's at the root of this. And by the time she left, she literally bought a pair of boots.
Jenn (31:30)
there is the perfect opportunity to.
my God. I love that. yeah, having like a woman there too. mean, like you as a female outdoor representative, it's easier I find for other women to talk to you. Cause it's just not like, you know, some of those women are like, you're just mansplaining to me if it's a man being like,
Jen (31:39)
Yeah.
Right. I can see that. I can see that. Yeah, it's totally, well, I Carrie's approach is totally different than mine anyway, but just, you know, the six foot two bearded man versus the five, four and 10. It does make a difference. You're right.
Jenn (32:02)
really?
Petite. Yeah. No, totally. the product that you have in your store, is that all seal that you and your husband have harvested? Is there a team that harvests that?
Jen (32:18)
Yeah, so we can't harvest enough ourselves to fill all of our orders and all the products we make. So it kind of all gets pulled to that one tannery that exists on the island and then they'll distribute it once they get them all all tanned. Certainly our pellets are among it, but it's not all of ours. There's a but it's all from Newfoundland. It's all Newfoundland harvested seals. Yeah.
Jenn (32:23)
Wow.
Very neat.
Yeah.
that's beautiful. And if anyone from the state's orders, do you have to refund them as well? Like, can you only sell within Canada?
Jen (32:47)
We do, yeah, so first we contact them and say like, do you have maybe a summer home or in Canada or a winter home in Canada that we can send it there and then you can deal with it after what you do after I have no control over. But if they don't have that, you know, at their disposal, then yeah, unfortunately, if they don't want, we also deal in like Beaver and Coyote items. So we'll offer to substitute an item.
Jenn (32:55)
somewhere around this.
Okay.
Jen (33:16)
but most of the time it's the seal that they want and so we need to refund them,
Jenn (33:20)
Yeah, I didn't realize it was just so restricted to Canada. Do you think that'll ever change?
Jen (33:27)
I'm hoping the EU just finished or they're in the process, I guess, of doing a fitness, a fitness test or something like that on the bands that are currently in place over there and seeing if it all checks out and if it's working. So many people submitted submissions to that and rationale behind why it should or shouldn't continue.
And I guess when they're through with that process, then they will make a decision. But I'm hopeful. I mean, there were like 13,000 submissions. I probably 12,000 plus were for aunties, you know, saying, but all those submissions were like three lines saying, this is cruel, seals deserve to live.
Jenn (34:13)
okay.
Jen (34:22)
And that was kind of it. Whereas when you look at the ones that were in support of taking back the ban and making it legal again, they were very thoughtful, science-based, well-rationaled pieces, you know? So I'm hoping that that small but well-done portion will outweigh the many emotional three-line ones.
Jenn (34:39)
Yeah, well presented.
Yeah, that would make sense because I mean, the anti's are as well meaning as they might be. It is emotion based. So it hopefully will be easy for them to weigh through like, you know, what's emotion, what's fact, what's actually better.
Jen (34:57)
Mm-hmm.
Exactly. Yeah. And within the factual ones, you can put the emotion in there as well. And you do like, I care about the welfare of animals. That is why a humane, a proven humane harvest that yields biodegradable products. Basically, we can compost the vast majority of our products when we're done with them. So the long term environmental damage is minimal. So
Jenn (35:12)
Yeah.
Jen (35:32)
you can put that into play. Like, seals will be choking on the plastic-based clothing that they want to use as alternatives. So a bit of long-term critical thought needs to come into play, and the emotion comes into play with that too. So I'm hopeful. I've been let down many times before, but maybe this time will be different.
Jenn (35:38)
Yeah.
I know.
And mean, your boots on the ground, so you see the impact of the overpopulation and not being able to hunt more.
Jen (36:00)
yeah, sure do. Yeah. They also, the government also got rid of the nuisance seal license that used to exist. So if a fisherman was out there and we were hauling in our nets and the seals were getting into it, you could dispatch to them because it was a nuisance seal and it was having an impact on your catch. But they got rid of that license. So now they know they can come in. We're throwing back juvenile crab, which is our conservation.
mechanism for crab, throw the young ones back, the seals are there waiting because they know you're throwing it back and they'll take it. So yeah, just eating it. So the conservation measures we have in place aren't going to work.
Jenn (36:35)
Just eating it.
No, for sure. Yeah, that's, it's kind of frustrating. And no, absolutely. and you went to school for environmental biology, right?
Jen (36:46)
Yep, it's in the long hair middle. It won't be good.
I did. Yes. Yeah. I worked with Parks Canada for a lot of years and starting at like 15 or 16. I did French immersion. So I'm totally, I'm completely fluent. And my only question when I was 15 was, you speak French? To get into Parks Canada, that's not the only reason I stayed or they kept me, but it's the only reason I got in at like 15. And in those years, when I was finishing up high school, I was like, yeah, this is really something that's up my alley, the outdoors and
Jenn (37:02)
Wow!
you
Jen (37:24)
conservation and ecology. so then, excuse me, that's when I decided to take that in university. So I went to four years, the last couple of years of last year was like a reduced course load, because I was also working at the same time. And before I could graduate back then in like 2004, I was offered a year round permanent job with the park.
Jenn (37:29)
Excuse me, that's I decided to take that university. So I went to four years, but the last couple of years of last year has been reduced for some time. And before I could graduate back then, like 2004,
Jen (37:52)
And so I was kind of in a dilemma, like, do I finish my degree or do I go to work? And then I'm thinking the whole reason I'm going to school is to get a job like this. So if they're willing to offer it to me before my education's finished, then I need to take it. So I took it and all through my career there, it's like, yeah, I'm two courses shy of a degree. anyway, two years ago, I went back and finished them. I complicated, or last year I complicated last year.
Jenn (38:17)
cool.
Jen (38:21)
So it was like 23 years, think, start to finish, but it's done. I did. Yeah, Aspen got to watch me walk across the stage. And when I started, she wasn't even thought of, you know? So it was pretty cool. But yeah, I did take environmental biology because it's real passion for me. And it's in line with everything I believe into my core. And it has come in handy in being able to
Jenn (38:27)
You got it done.
my God.
Jen (38:50)
dissect the scientific papers that are out there and arguments that I'm trying to make and stuff. So it's pretty useful.
Jenn (38:53)
I bet.
What work did you do with Parks Canada? was Parks Canada, right?
Jen (38:59)
Yeah, yeah, I was I was an interpreter for a lot of years. I would take an interpreter, not like language translator, but out on the land doing guided hikes and telling people about the geology, the ecology, the biology and the culture as well. And then I moved into the service national office in terms of delivering service training and
Jenn (39:05)
Okay.
amazing.
Jen (39:24)
service standards and how to communicate with people and how to serve guests and being hospitable and all that. Yeah. but having that field knowledge from my years out on the ground, working at the visitor center, working out on the land helped me be able to determine how to communicate with people on the ground. Cause I did that job.
Jenn (39:33)
Very cool.
Jen (39:49)
for a lot of years. So I had some street cred, I guess, is what I came down to. Yeah.
Jenn (39:52)
Yeah, that's it. For sure. And you and your family seem to like live off the land. Like you're in moose country there. I mean, I visited Newfoundland in the summer. And I was like looking everywhere, they're selling moose. And I'm like, how the heck are these people like, cause we're not allowed to sell wild games. So I'm just like, are these like domestic moose? What's going on? So I started looking it up and there's like more moose than people and.
Jen (40:13)
Right. Yeah, the moose story is pretty interesting in Newfoundland. So caribou was our only woodland caribou was our only native ungulate on the island. And back in 1904, they introduced six moose to the island. And from that, population just exploded. We're a logging island. So moose really do prefer early successional forests. So when the when the trees have been killed or
cut down due to insect kill or fire or cutting, they do like what grows back. That's their prime food. So like the deciduous trees are usually the first to come back and that's what they love. So we've kind of created the perfect environment for them on the island because it's a logging island for pulp and paper. So they just, yeah, and it's so sparsely populated that they had their run of it, you know? So yeah, they…
Jenn (40:48)
Okay.
Jen (41:09)
I think the population was up to like, I don't know, like 150,000 or something. And that's with 30,000 being taken every year in the hunt. yeah, restaurants can get a license to purchase meat from hunters. Some families can get, depending on how the pool system works, they can get like two moose or three moose a year in a season.
Jenn (41:16)
That's crazy.
Jen (41:39)
for a household if three people are hunting and get their license. And so that's, that's too much for one family really, if it's a smallish family. So yeah, you can, you can get through to restaurants.
Jenn (41:41)
Okay.
Wow.
Well, that's true. Yeah. It's kind of like deer up here. I mean, we can get multiple tags, but deer are so much smaller than moose. It's not that's going to feed the family. The moose, I can totally see that being. Do you guys see any impacts from the massive population of moose or is it works out well?
Jen (41:57)
Right.
So there on the rest of the island, the impacts were pretty minimal. The main impacts were on the highways, actually moose accidents, moose vehicle collisions, unfortunately. In the national park, though, there was no hunting. So that was the only population control mechanism outside of the national park. And it was serving its purpose within the national park, though.
in our park, which is like 1805 square kilometers, there were over 8,000 moose. And that's included, that's including like a lot of places where there's big bodies of water. So moose aren't living there. So there were some areas where there were 27 moose per square kilometer. National parks are established to protect native species that whether that be trees, plants or animals. And we were running into a situation where moose, a non-native species,
Jenn (42:39)
goodness.
Yeah, that's true.
Jen (43:02)
was leading to the elimination of certain native species, certain native species of trees. So a consultation process began 15, 20 years ago maybe to figure out what to do about it. And so since 10 years ago, I think there's been a moose hunt in the park, in the national park. You can get a, yes. So I mean, the regulations are much the same.
Jenn (43:07)
Okay.
Okay, so is this a fairly controlled?
Jen (43:31)
accept the use of all-terrain vehicles outside of the park. can, once you get an animal down, you can bring a quad in to retrieve it and bring it back out, but that's not permitted in the national park. So everything needs to be done by manpower. yeah, and so you'll laugh, the season goes into December, January, when there's a little bit of snow. So you'll see people going in with like pelican sleds and they'll
Jenn (43:34)
Okay.
okay.
Like backpack it out.
yeah.
Jen (44:01)
be pulling those with full moves. So yeah, it's a different way. And snowmobiling is also allowed in the national park under very specific conditions. So you can retrieve them that way as well. But yeah, the population has been reduced down to about 2000 or so. So yes, it's worked and places are recovering. There were areas in the park just to
Jenn (44:04)
my God.
okay.
That helps as well.
Okay.
Jen (44:30)
just to prove that they were having an impact, they would build these like 10 foot high fences, a, and it's called an exclosure, not an enclosure, because you're trying to keep the moose excluded, not keep them in. And the forest inside of these big exclosures were crazy. And then there was nothing outside. And there was a space at the bottom. So like snowshoe hare and other.
Jenn (44:51)
my god.
and other herbivores to get it.
Jen (44:57)
herbivores could get in. you were really only excluding the moose. And it was pretty obvious what kind of an impact they were having on the tree and the vegetation. was, yeah, yeah. And there's some trails around here where they've actually turned that into an interpretive exhibit. So there's panels and stuff where you can see it firsthand. And, but yeah, the hunt in the national park here is a great offer for local people anyway.
Jenn (45:00)
Thank
Yeah, when you can see that contrast.
Definitely. Do you and your family hunt moose every year?
Jen (45:29)
I tend to get a license every year. The area I go to is pretty small and hard to get to. So not many people apply. So I get that license every year. I think the park, if you apply for the park, you'll get it. But I tend to stay away from the park. I just like to go to my regular area.
Jenn (45:35)
Okay.
Yeah, I hear you. Absolutely. I totally understand that. my God. That's awesome. Do you have any exciting hunts coming up this for the rest of this season?
Jen (45:59)
Well, moose hunting, guess, is what I'll be at. I'd like to go take Aspen in the hills and do a little pteromagant hunt or something like that. That's pretty fun. Yeah, she enjoys that. So, yeah, a few years ago, I ended up getting… It's funny when you talk about how big moose are. For a couple of years, I was really focusing on sheep hunting and deer hunting, and I wasn't moose hunting much. So a couple of years ago, two years ago…
Jenn (46:02)
focusing on.
cool.
Jen (46:28)
I went in and I got a moose alone by myself. And then when it was on the ground, I was like, I forgot how big these things were. I was used to deer and sheep. So it was quite an endeavor to break that thing down. But yeah, hopefully I'll get at that again. Maybe I'll get Kerry to come in with me this time. I enjoy hunting with him. He's like one of the best hunters I know.
We don't get to spend a whole lot of time, just two of us on the land. cause Aspen usually is with us, especially in school and during the moose hunt. So, we can go in for a day or so and get in there and hopefully get it done before the snow comes. That would be great. It's so much fun when you go in, when they're coming to the call, like there's no hunting like that. You see them coming in on a string and their, their eyes are like possessed and they're like drooling and everything.
Jenn (46:59)
yeah, fair enough.
That's amazing.
I bet I'd love to try that.
Jen (47:25)
snotting from the nose like it's, it's such a cool experience. Yeah. So I'm eager to get at that again.
Jenn (47:28)
Your adrenaline is skyrocketing.
Yeah.
I can't even imagine. mean, I know when I go turkey hunting, like I'm calling and there's a big Tom charging at the, at the blind and that is nothing compared to a massive moose.
Jen (47:38)
Thank
No, no, we had a we were just out on a trail the other day not hunting but called a bull in and he was a beautiful, beautiful bull. So yeah, it was kind like I need to get back at that again.
Jenn (47:58)
Yeah, I bet. Do people ever have run ins with moose where moose might be attacking them or anything like that?
Jen (48:05)
don't hear of it too often. In the fall of the year you might get a bull who's a bit territorial and he might come at you or in the spring a cow with her calf or something but you don't hear too much about it, no.
Jenn (48:06)
Okay.
Okay, but just like a fair-
Okay, I'm not very familiar with moose hunting at all. It's something that I've always wanted to do, something I will do one day soon. But yeah, you always see these videos of people getting charged by moose and I'm like, is this just like videos or are all moose like this? No.
Jen (48:30)
for a minute.
Yeah, well, I mean, if you ride your skidoo up to a moose in the middle of a trail, then yeah, like what do you expect the moose to do kind of thing? especially when the whole reason for that usually is that the skidoo trails are so packed down, so it's easier for them to walk on. Then if you go off the trail and it's deep and awkward, yeah, yeah. So they're drawn to places like that.
Jenn (48:44)
It's sort of like a common sense kind of thing.
That's it.
yeah.
they're falling through and stuff. That's so true.
Jen (49:04)
But yeah, usually that's what it involves or in a close encounter, like if you shoot a moose and his reaction is to just run towards you. Thankfully, I haven't had that happen, but that could be another situation where it happens.
Jenn (49:22)
What do you use for most yourself like rifle caliber wise?
Jen (49:25)
Yeah, so I use a 6.5 284. That's my sheep gun and my deer gun, but with a well-placed shot, it's plenty. But the year before, I also have a 28 Nosler. So that's the first day I got it from Gunwerks, actually. I got my moose with it.
Jenn (49:29)
Nice.
Yeah, I think a 6.5 is great.
Jen (49:49)
went and sighted it in and then went in. I think it had, think it was like the fourth bullet that went through the barrel and it was, it was at a moose. So that was, that was cool. I have archery hunted moose as well, which is a lot of fun.
Jenn (49:56)
my God.
That is really cool.
Yeah, I bet. Absolutely. that's amazing. this went by really fast. I can't believe it's already been like almost an hour. I know. wow. Okay. I have a lot of questions for you, so we'll definitely have to do this again, but before we, you know, sign off, cause I try and keep it under an hour so people don't trail off, from listening, where can people find you and your boutique and the museum and everything?
Jen (50:15)
As in the Holy smokes.
Sure. Yeah. So, I'm on Instagram, I guess that's the main platform I use or Facebook, I guess it cross posts, now, but, on Instagram, I'm Smidgen. So S I D J E N and on Facebook, I'm Jen Shears Outdoors. Also on Facebook, our boutique is Natural Boutique, maybe Natural Boutique NL, the website's naturalboutique.ca.
Jenn (50:40)
Yes.
Jen (51:05)
And the Wildlife Museum is called Grossmourne. That's the name of the national park here. So Grossmourne Wildlife Museum. And my blog is jenshears.com. So I've got stuff there about my polar bear hunt and polar bear hunting in general, the seal hunt and some recipes and stuff. Black bear, moose, mountain lion. Yeah, lots of different things on that. I need to get back to.
Jenn (51:05)
I will link everything in the show notes.
cool.
Jen (51:31)
blogging. I keep it active because the SEAL stuff and the Polar Bristop gets a lot of attraction. But I'm just so busy on top of everything. guess my main job now is I'm a hockey mom and Aspen plays like on six or eight different teams. that's where I am a lot of the time at the arena. Yes, I'm trying to, it's a season, you know, I mean in life because it's four seasons hockey is these days, but it's a season in life. you know, once she's
Jenn (51:47)
my goodness, really?
Jen (52:01)
finished all that and not wishing it away, but once it happens, that's when I'm going to get back on the land more, do what I can now, but hockey is her passion.
Jenn (52:06)
Yeah.
Any of my friends that have kids in hockey, yeah, like that's their basic life during that hockey season because you're traveling everywhere.
Jen (52:14)
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, it's like she's been to Florida for hockey and Halifax and different places. She might go to Vermont this year. yeah, so while I said we used to we only travel for poker and for hunting, but now it's for hockey too.
Jenn (52:25)
Wow.
Well, yeah, I guess being on the island too, there would be so much more traveling, I assume.
Jen (52:35)
Yeah, there is a lot. Most big things happen in St. John's. It's just eight hours away and eight hour drive. just in our small town, everything requires driving.
Jenn (52:40)
Okay.
Yeah, I mean, I think, yeah, St. John's is where I was this summer. So it seemed like the the main spot.
Jen (52:50)
it is. Yeah. Yeah. So that's where I see all skin stores out in St. John's and yeah, we've got things going on all over the place.
Jenn (52:57)
very cool.
Yeah. amazing. Okay. Well, thank you so much. This was, this was super educational for me. Everyone's going to love this.
Jen (53:06)
Yeah, thanks for having me. We'll do it again sometime for sure. It was good seeing you again. I know I saw you last month, but seeing you on the screen here again now is great too.
Jenn (53:10)
Yes.
Yeah, absolutely. Hopefully we can run into each other again soon at another event. Thank you so much.
Jen (53:20)
Yeah, that'd be great. Thanks, Jen.
Jenn (53:25)
I think that's it, yeah. Are we done yet? No.
